•Says it’ll be foolish to go into next election as separate political parties
The Lagos State governorship candidate of the Labour Party in the 2023 general election, Gbadebo Rhodes-Vivour, has stated that to get the desired change that Nigeria needs, opposition parties must come together to send the ruling All Progressives Congress (APC) packing in 2027.
In his words, it would be foolish for the opposition parties to go into another election as separate political parties.
Rhodes-Vivour, in this interview with EMMA NJOKU, said those in government are only interested in putting money in their pockets and bank accounts without showing concern over the plight of Nigerians. He described the President Bola Tinubu’s administration, so far, as one of the most retrogressive he has witnessed. He also spoke on the country’s dwindling economy, insecurity, the return of the old national anthem, the Lagos-Calabar coastal road, and other issues.
What’s your impression of the Bola Tinubu administration after one year in office?
For me, I’ve witnessed, in the past one year, one of the most retrogressive governments I’ve ever seen, at least, in my short time on this planet earth and in my consciousness of politics and governance. We have a situation where inflation is at an all-time high, unemployment at an all-time high, so many companies are shutting down just because they cannot afford to pay salaries, and their sales are at an all-time low while prices of commodities are at an all-time high. The level of poverty and hunger is at an all-time high. The multi-national ministries that are supposed to help us tackle this multidimensional poverty facing Nigerians, those in charge are indicted or linked to corruption. They are supposed to help the people but they end up helping their pockets or bank accounts. You have a situation where a government that should be focused on driving a productive economy is constantly peddling propaganda and rumours, such that you don’t even know what to believe. This does not help in building trust between the government and the people. You can do your politics based on propaganda, but you cannot govern based on propaganda, otherwise you ruin the trust between the government and the people. We have a situation where the federal government is meddling into state affairs. You can see what is going on in Kano right now regarding the ‘emir-ship’ tussle.
What is your take on the change of the National Anthem?
With all the serious issues that the government should be dealing with, what the present government is pushing to the National Assembly is the changing of the National Anthem. And we’re changing the national anthem from the one written by a Nigerian, which is a prayer for our leaders and our youths, to something written by a British during the colonial era. Are we moving forward or backward? If we want to change the national anthem, we can move it forward, because there was a reason we moved it from the former one to a new one. Why are we retrogressing to the colonial era?
Timi Dakolo wrote a beautiful song that could be adopted as an amazing national anthem that every Nigerian should be proud of. This goes back to why we say that politics should be representative of the demographic population of a country. If it was, I don’t think somebody my age would want us to go back to our former national anthem. The youths make up about 60 per cent of the population of our country. But when you have people in their 80s, even though they claim to be in their 70s, in charge of our affairs, they’re always looking back and yawning for the good old days. And the good old days should come with substance.
For instance, the Lagos Island that President Bola Tinubu experienced as a young man, where he could open a tap and see water, that’s the substance we’re looking for. Not frivolous things like the national anthem. Take us back to the time when graduates come out of school and there are jobs waiting for them. Take us back to the time when there was accountability in our governance. Take us back to the time when politicians stood for something, ideologies, not the moneybag kind of politics that we have today. Take us back to the time when the government valued education and invested in education; invested a lot of money in our health care system. At a time people are struggling to feed, is it the national anthem that matters to them?
What are your views about the Lagos – Calabar Coastal Road?
They said they are going back to the former realignment after sand-filling and destroying people’s property and businesses. If they had done an environmental impact assessment as they claimed, they would have known that there were underwater cables in those places. It’s obvious they did not carry out any environmental assessment before destroying people’s property and businesses. The focus is on the government’s incompetence. From all the demolitions going on in Lagos, even in the remotest part of the state, anybody would tell you that representatives of state or local governments carry out inspections of the site before any construction starts. So, any building that has reached the roof level and the government comes to demolish it, for one reason or the other, the government is complicit in that illegality. Unfortunately, it’s only the citizens that pay the price. If there’s due diligence on the part of the government, we will not have frequent cases of building collapse in Lagos. The government is supposed to inspect the quality of materials that are used for buildings to ensure a solid structure. Sometimes, some people get permission to build a two-storey building, but end up building five floors. That’s why we have many cases of building collapse. Those developers must be brought to justice.
People have been complaining about the current economic situation. What’s your take on that?
With the interest rate at 26 per cent, no business can survive under such an environment. Look at what is happening to our exchange rate. The government is putting plaster on a gunshot wound. Recently, the dollar rate to the naira dropped, but the exchange rate has gone back to N1, 500 per dollar, and at the rate it’s going up, it will get to N1, 800 very soon. The government should focus on solving the main problem because the value of the currency defines the faith the people have in the government. It’s not just about demand and supply. There’s a bigger value which is faith. When I finished my university education abroad, I and some of my friends decided to return to Nigeria because we had faith in the former President Olusegun Obasanjo’s government. Look at the quality of his ministers. He appointed highly trained and skilled people. People like Ngozi Okonjo Iweala, Nasir El-Rufai, Oby Ezekwesili, Dora Akunyili and others. People had faith in the government. Nobody told me and my friends to come back home after our studies abroad; we had faith in the government. We could have secured lucrative jobs in America, but we all came back. It is possible to have the opposite of ‘Japa’. Look at the GDP (Gross Domestic Product) and the inflation rate during the Obasanjo government. When the economy is being managed properly, people have faith in the government. You must have seen a video of the former governor of Ekiti State, Kayode Fayemi, talking about how they knew that petrol subsidy had to be removed, but they “sabotaged it because it’s politics”. Even if you’re doing politics, you must always consider the interest of the people. If the former President Goodluck Jonathan had removed the fuel subsidy at the time and continued with his policies, Nigeria would have been a better place today.
Are you impressed with President Bola Tinubu’s effort towards curbing insecurity across the country?
I’ve not seen any sign of empathy from the president. He doesn’t even seem to be aware of what is going on in the country. And this was what they used against former President Goodluck Jonathan when the Chibok Secondary School girls were kidnapped. They were going about campaigning against Jonathan’s government and dancing on stage. What is Tinubu doing today about the rising insecurity in the country? The primary responsibility of any government is the protection of life and property of the people. The other time a lot of people were kidnapped and we saw the president and his people in Abuja dressed in asoebi (uniform) and dancing. They had all the time to sew asoebi? You can see that we have a performative government. Now we have seen the presentation of a draft bill where they want to change the method of government. They’re talking about going back to the regional government.
What do you make of the size of President Tinubu’s government?
For me, the size is not really the issue. Governance is about service to the people. The pay of those in government should be the same with those of civil servants. It shouldn’t be more than what the civil servants earn. We are not just talking about a bloated cabinet; the people in government are stealing. It’s either they are padding the budget or they’re busy buying expensive cars. Is it the money they send to their pigeon holes during Christmas and Sallah? These are things that Nigerians cannot afford, especially when the government is borrowing money here and there to pay people who are squandering the money. It’s not even about productivity. A lot of Nigerians are passionate to make quality laws that will profit their businesses. But when you look at the Senate Chambers today, you notice that about 75 per cent of the seats are hardly occupied during plenary. The only time you see the Senate full is when they want to talk about things that will benefit them directly. Otherwise, the next thing you hear is they’ve gone on recess when there are serious issues in the country to talk about. Membership of the National Assembly should be on a part time basis, so that the lawmakers can have other businesses they do. The National Assembly should not be a goldmine or money-making place. Only people who are called to service should be there. When people know that there’s a limit to the amount of money they make there, they’ll stop spending money on politics. Look at the late Alhaji Lateef Jakande. Look at the way he lived, the car he drove, the house he lived in, and you’ll see a direct reflection of the kind of service he provided for Lagosians.
Both the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) and the Labour Party (LP) are currently enmeshed in crisas. Does it not suggest that we’re heading for a one-party state?
Political parties are about interests. Our democracy has not matured to the point of having party ideologies and values. For instance, people are advocating a truly federal state that would devolve power to the states. Some are saying they want a regional government. If I’m passionate about power devolving to the states or a party whose ideology is regional government… Remember that the late Dr Nnamdi Azikiwe had a national and Pan-African ideology, as opposed to Chief Obafemi Awolowo’s regional ideology. That’s why somebody like Pa Ayo Adebanjo would tell you that he was first a Zikist, but when he understood what Chief Awolowo was pushing, he switched to his group. When there’s an ideology, people can stay the course, but when there’s no ideology, people jump the ship. Sixty per cent of the population of this country wants the country to be managed by people who follow their thoughts. They’re no longer interested in the same people who have been in power since 1999 because it makes no sense.
Some people have said that if the last presidential and governorship polls were held the same day, you would have won the Lagos State governorship election. Do you believe that?
Oh yes. Even if the governorship election was held on the date it was originally scheduled to hold, we would have won the election. The two weeks interval that the election was delayed was used to strategise and plan for violence. Up till now, Governor Babajide Sanwo-Olu has not apologised for not coming out to participate in any debate before the election. He did not campaign for votes. Becoming a hairdresser overnight was not campaign. Going to Computer Village in Ikeja was not campaign. We saw other candidates coming out for debates, campaigning and selling themselves and their ideas to the electorate. Power is obtained through the barrel of the gun or the ballot. They are setting themselves up for a very big problem, especially with characters that are passionate and are not ready to collect money from you. You know they’ve always got away with this for a long time by compromising other parties and candidates. You can see that they’ve been silent for a long time. But I have been busy moving around and engaging the people because I’m not going to compromise. And when you’re dealing with people, you must recognise and understand the people you’re dealing with and not, in your desperation, destroy the nation. After they’ve shown us what they did, I’m going to be a fool to think that tomorrow there will be a peaceful election. I’m a serious person. I’m a passionate person. When I’m for something, I go all out for it. I don’t pull punches. Are we going to wait for them again to come and beat us up? Are we going to wait for them again to come and snatch the ballot boxes? Is that what Lagos needs?
Do you see the Labour Party having that same mass appeal in parts of the country in 2027?
That movement was a movement of the people. I did not win the Labour Party ticket because I was the richest man. I simply sold my vision and ideas to certain people and they believed me. They said this is how #EndSARS happened. This is what the young people are clamouring for, participation in government. Let’s give somebody like this the flag. Same thing with Peter Obi. They could have given the ticket to somebody that would bring bags of money. But Peter is a man of conviction. He’s a man that has principles. And he’s courageous enough to pursue his principles. And the Labour Party saw that and keyed into it. So, the Labour Party replicating that feat will be based on the decision they make. And I believe that with the right people and the quality the party has, they’ll make the right decisions and the party will replicate that feat again. I’m very excited about the forthcoming election in Edo State. We have a fantastic candidate there. He’s somebody that is engaging and intelligent. He has pedigree and principles. We need leaders that have shame. That’s the smallest thing that can change our trajectory as a nation. A person who has shame for things associated with stealing will not be involved in corruption when he’s in government because he holds his integrity much more important than money. We need leaders who hold their integrity higher than money. Money is not everything. We need leaders who are servant leaders like the late Alhaji Lateef Jakande. His pride was not in the house that he lived in. His pride was not in the car that he drove. His pride was in the impact he made in the lives of Lagosians. What I’m trying to say is that I cannot be seen in a video today criticising the APC about how they’ve mismanaged the state resources, how they’re mediocrities and so on, and, tomorrow, you see me praising the same people and I’ll go and join them. Why? Because I have shame! We need more people like that. But look at the political elite today. I know they say there are no permanent friends or enemies in politics, I agree. But, at the same time, there can be ideas and principles. There can be character. These are missing in our politics today.
Do you foresee any possible merger between the Labour Party and other parties ahead of the2027 elections?
I think the wise thing for us to do as opposition parties is to come together. It will be very foolish to enter another election as separate political parties. If you add the votes that Peter Obi got in the last election to the one that Alhaji Atiku Abubakar got, they surpass the votes got by President Bola Tinubu by about four million. So it will not make sense for us to go into the 2027 election divided.
But there will always be the issue of who becomes the flag-bearer in the event of a merger…
That’s the politics of it. But the wonderful part of it is that Peter Obi has shown his value. He has shown his strength and national acceptance as a person. He has continued to engage the people after the election. You see him every day, making an impact, holding the government accountable. He’s setting a fantastic example for the young politicians like me and others. Besides that, I think that we’re better off together. That’s how the current ruling party was able to defeat the PDP. All of them came together; CPC, ACN, ANPP and so on. So we must come together, as many of us that share the same ideologies, vision and values, in order to defeat them in the next election.
Giving what played out during and after the last election, do you still have confidence in the electoral process and the judiciary?
If you ask me about confidence in the electoral process, my answer is a ‘no’ to that. I went to the tribunal after the election and we saw our results. I saw where they changed from 12 to 120. I saw where they changed from six to 60 and so on. Before the election, the head of INEC (Independent National Electoral Commission), Prof. Mahmoud Yakubu, repeatedly told us that we were going to have electronic transmission of votes. I was in the electoral committee of the Ondo State governorship election when I was in PDP and we were collating our results from the INEC portal. And when we compared those results with our agents’ results, they were the same. That was why we didn’t hear too much of the court processes in the Ondo State governorship election. Yes, there were some skirmishes in some of the local governments, but by and large, I was in the INEC Situation Room, and we were collating our results from the INEC Server. It is possible and it has worked. It was based on the fact that we had the confidence that it was going to work in the last election. Unfortunately, it did not work. The tribunal told us that the Senate could not compel INEC to use the server. So the person that gave guidelines did not follow his guidelines. And the court said the law did not compel INEC to follow the guidelines.
Secondly, when you look at the judiciary, you remember the case of Governor Jackson Adeleke of Osun State. For me, he was robbed of his mandate when he first contested the governorship election. Everybody knows it. The court ruled that the court that sat over the case was not properly constituted and, therefore, every judgment by the court was null and void. But many people died trying to defend that mandate. After the last election, Adeleke also went to court and the person he contested against this time is a cousin to the sitting president, but Adeleke won. If there’s a time when they could have arm-twisted Adeleke and snatched the mandate from him, it should have been now, but he won. So, you never know with Nigeria. It is only in this country that someone who came fourth in an election is declared the winner. And when they do it, you can shout to high heavens, they don’t care! So you move on with your life. So Adeleke’s case gives us some kind of jaded or cynical hope; we’ll keep trying. The truth is that all they’re trying to do is to break our strength and spirit, so we could leave power in their hands forever. And no country develops like that. So we must fight for our country because it’s worth fighting for.
Are you going to contest the next governorship election in Lagos?
Yes, I will contest by the grace of God. My main priority at the moment is to understand what happened in that election and close up the loopholes. I’m working with the communities to ensure that we have a solid structure, so that the violence against certain tribes during that election does not happen again..
There has been this battle to take back Lagos from the claws of a “cabal” of non-indigenes. Do you think that battle can be won?
Lagos will be taken back because of several reasons. One, those at the helm of affairs in Lagos, at the moment, cannot represent the essence of Lagos. The demolition that is currently going on does not represent the spirit of Lagos. Antagonising different tribes and ethnic groups does not represent the spirit of Lagos. Lagosians are not like that. About 75 per cent of the top 2,000 richest people in Nigeria have their businesses and houses in Lagos. Everybody feels safe in Lagos and that’s the essence of Lagos. The current governor is from Ogun State. The current deputy governor’s father is a king in Ogun State. So you see that those in charge of Lagos at the moment are not carrying that legacy and that’s why they treat Lagos as if it’s a conquered state or the commonwealth of the South West. No! It is not! So, we will take Lagos back. Fortunately, our elders who were quiet for some time have started speaking up now, and they’re saying they want Lagos State to work for Lagosians.
How does it feel being described as a non-indigene in your own land?
You remember that the same thing was done to Mr. Jimi Agbaje when he was contesting for the governorship of Lagos State. They called him Jimi Chukwu. The thing is that they play this ethnic card so well, but it’s all based on lies. Lagos State has had two South-Eastern military administrators, and they’re not the ones converting Lagos State properties to their personal properties. They’re not the ones taking lands from people. They’re not the ones struggling for political power in Lagos State. APGA (All Progressives Alliance Party), as an Igbo party, had fielded a candidate for governorship race in Lagos at a time; that candidate did not get up to 10 per cent of the total votes cast in that election. If the Igbo wanted to take over Lagos, they would have gathered themselves and said our brother is contesting, let us vote for him. But they did not do that. So why would anybody now say they want to take over your state? Whatever development you’ve seen in Lagos today, the Igbo man, South East man, the South South man and the Middle Belt man bought the land to build their houses and businesses there. The same people who are complaining are those who would go and forcefully take people’s land and will not compensate them. So, all the propaganda and ethnic victimisation are based on lies. Obafemi Hamzat is not an indigene of Lagos; Babajide Sanwo-Olu is not an indigene of Lagos. The non-Yoruba speaking people who reside in Lagos have always been the biggest business partners of the indigenous people of Lagos. Nobody can question Jimi Agbaje’s pedigree in Lagos State. We know his grandfather, we know his father because our history is so well documented. That’s why we say “amorawa” (we know ourselves). For instance, Hamzat cannot join Eko Club because membership of the club is entirely for the indigenes. Bola Tinubu will have a hard time before he could join the club. I know that as a governor he had honorary membership but people will stand up and say, ‘Oga, you’re not part of us’. So you have a situation where people are looking for a state that is productive. In Lagos, people want to do business; people want to strive. That’s the history of Lagos. It’s a commercial hub. It’s not a place you just come and sit and waste your time. The Igbo and other ethnic groups and nationalities have not only contributed in developing and growing the economy of Lagos State, they also create jobs. So, how dare you say that those who are paying taxes and developing the state have no voice in the affairs of the state, or that they should not vote during elections?