• After 33 years in ministry, I’ve seen lies, scandals, but I’m still standing
Apostle Anslem Madubuko is the Apostolic Leader and Founder of Revival Assembly Ministries International, popularly called “The New Anointing”.
In this interview with VIVIAN ONYEBUKWA and CHIOMA OKEZIE, he spoke about life growing up, church and the society.
How can you compare your growing up days and the society now?
We were all in heaven growing up. Even though we didn’t have God, there was so much love and contentment. There was brotherhood. I was a Capon growing up in the university in the Pyrates Confraternity. We didn’t kill anybody; we didn’t have guns. We were just stubborn young people enjoying what looked like a secret society, just a bunch of young people drinking and shouting. It used to be so much fun. We were driving from Enugu to Ibadan from 6pm till dawn going about the whole place without any incident. Today you cannot drive from here to VI in peace and be free at night. You can’t cross the states at night anymore. I loved Nigeria so much that all my siblings opted to study abroad; I was the only one that said that I can’t leave this country. This was in the 70s. I could not imagine living outside Nigeria because of how it was. But now everyone wants a way out, the one prayer in the mouth of everyone is favour at the embassy. People carry passports to church and they are travelling every day. Many have left. I don’t blame them. If I was young, I won’t be here. There is nothing here for anyone. I am talking like a human being. I am fine because God is my source. I am talking about the average Nigerian. I see people and I wonder how they survive.
There are churches everywhere, yet immorality thrives. What do think about it?
We thank God because it would have been worse. The truth is that not many churches are real churches. Most of these churches have nothing to offer. Who are you to judge? They all come as churches. They do all kinds of things. The number of churches is not enough to make any positive change. It’s like pouring water in a river. We have 200 million Nigerians. How many people know Jesus? We don’t have enough churches and influence yet. People just move from place to place looking for solution because they don t care how it comes. Some go to churches to get power to commit fraud and sell drugs.
People are misplacing their anger asking us to go and build a factory instead of a church. It is not the job of the church to build a factory, it’s for government. The government that is not doing anything, the local government chairman that cannot even fix the roads; they eat the money every month and no one talks. It is government and we are not even addressing them. We have it all messed up in Nigeria because one non-believer is not happy with Christ and is engineering all sorts through the media. They come out with things that look like the truth and broadcast it and make it look real, all kinds of propaganda. One thing one pastor does affects the whole church. There are fake doctors and one will not say that they will not go to the hospital. It is only in church that when one fake Pastor does something wrong, people will generalise it.
How do you feel when you hear such comments?
It’s what I expect. The spirit realm controls the physical. Satan is fighting the church with such aggression and anger. He cannot stop God because the Bible says the gates of hell cannot prevail. If someone is truly born again, these side talks will not change anything.
There is this get-rich-quick syndrome by the youths these days. What is your take on this?
I am not trying to say that it’s good but I don’t blame them. It is not everyone that can resist poverty; it takes God’s grace to resist lack. It takes God’s grace not to put your hands in iniquity. I see the Economic and Financial Crimes Commission (EFC) troubling those little kids, harassing them. They should harass those stealing money from government. One man stealing billions and he is walking around free. At the end he will return some percentage and keep the rest. And on the so-called fight against drug trafficking, it looks like in Nigeria, selling and consuming hard drugs is a good thing now.
Is there anything the church is doing to help the youths in the midst of unemployment in the country?
If not for the church, this country would have exploded. We are talking to people and giving them hope. You cannot share money to the church members; how much are you going to share to them. All these people who say that they are using tithe money know where they are getting it. There is no tithe money in the church again. It is not enough to send a family to America; they get money somehow. Tithe money from people who are suffering? How many people have money to pay tithe these days? I am richer than my church because of my personal ministry. I travel the world; that is my own ministry. This is how it is with most called pastors. Most called pastors don’t make money from the church. They see you drive a car and they say it is church money. God is taking care of the church, not the people. Church is sponsored by good people not even rich people. People come on TV and say that pastors are thieves but in reality, we are sponsoring so many people and we have staff. We are paying them more than minimum wage. There is no money in a true church.
What are some of your challenges as a church General Overseer?
I don’t have any challenges. Any things that come are things I expect to come. We have been here for 33 years and the grace of God is sufficient. There is nothing new. I have seen lies, scandals and I am still standing.
How do you manage stress?
I try to rest and watch TV. I play on Facebook; I use those things to douse the tension. There is tension everywhere. If you do not watch stress in this country, you will kill yourself for nothing. Some days, I don’t pray; I just lie down and watch TV. This is because prayer is too much work. It is hard work. People tell me daddy, go and rest and pray. I tell them that when I rest, I don’t pray. The energy you expend praying is much. I cannot travel for vacation and be praying. I rest on Mondays; I just wake up and thank God for the day. I am going to enjoy myself today. I open Facebook to check what’s happening there. I put my mouth in everything. I will go to Tunde Ednut and say one thing and they will attack me. I will go to Linda Ikeji and say something and they will attack me. For me that is fun. I will just laugh at the curses. For me that is the way to survive in this country.
Would you say that the social media has done good to Nigerians than bad?
I love the social media.
What inspires you to keep keeping on?
I love Jesus, and at the end of it all Jesus is Lord. He has saved my soul and I am forever grateful. In spite of my mistakes, he is still helping. I thank God I found him. I don’t know how people live without Jesus. I weep when I hear people are dead without Christ. There is no repentance after death. When the spirit leaves the body, it goes back to God. It is only those that met with Jesus while alive that go back to God. The rest goes to hell. They don’t seem to understand that when they write “Rest in Peace” to the dead. I see people write that he is in a better place. You cannot be in a better place without Jesus. Nigerians are ignorant of what happens to life after death. Man is a spirit, the real us is an eternal being, it doesn’t die. When you die, you step out of your body. You see your body and the people you left behind. Some people are saying that Mohbad’s spirit came to them. Anything that you see is a lying spirit.
That takes his form to deceive people. We don’t have power after death. God is a spirit and we were made in the image of God. When you are out, there is either hell or heaven. There is no purgatory that can bring you out of hell. People should know the truth and decide what to do. I did not say come to my church but find Jesus wherever you are. Death without Christ is eternal separation from God. There are forces of hell that want everyman to come to hell. A man’s mistake should not stop anyone from following the truth. No man is God. Don’t use a man’s lifestyle as a reason to reject eternal life.
The issue of DNA has torn some families and even church members apart. Would you like to conduct a DNA test on your children?
That is a personal decision. But for me, anyone I see in my house is my child.