From Desmond Mgbo, Kano
Professor Haruna Wakili is the Director, Aminu Kano Centre for Democratic Research and Training, Mambiyya House, Bayero University, Kano. The highly regarded professor of History first held the position from 2005 to 2009, and thereafter served as Commissioner for Education, Science and Technology in Jigawa State in the administration of Governor Sule Lamido, for five years. After leaving Lamido’s cabinet he was re-appointed as director of the centre. In this interview, he offers his perceptive on some national issues.
Given your background as the Director of the Aminu Kano Centre, please give us your appraisal of the Buhari administration in the last two years. What do you think has been done well and what do you think could have been done better?
Like every human institution or activity, democratic governance in Nigeria in the past two years, in my view, has been a mixed blessing. Everything managed by human beings must have its good side, there must be huge accomplishments, there must be improvements no matter and there are areas that may require improvement or further changes. Overall, I think that the 2015 election that resulted in change from one civilian to another civilian; and not only a civilian to a civilian, it also brought about change from a dominant political party to an opposition party that took over through the ballot of box peacefully and in all judgment, through a fair and credible election, I think that that is a major achievement for democratic development in Nigeria.
First, I said the transition went well and everybody was happy and the entire world hailed Nigerians. That was a remarkable thing by the political class. The fact that there was no quarrel, no violence, there was peaceful and fair transition. It was a fundamental improvement.
The second factor is the fact that government made promises, these political actors made promises and one of their promises was the issue of security. From where we were coming from to where we are today, if you look at the journey so far, I think that there has been a tremendous improvement in the area of security in Nigeria. Government exists to secure people and their property and that is being done. Thirdly, there is the issue of fighting corruption. Whether you are in position or out of government, everybody wants the corruption issue addressed in Nigeria. We recognized that the number one enemy of Nigeria is corruption. It is responsible for bad leadership or poor governance in Nigeria. Here also, there have been tremendous attempts to deal with corruption, at least at the national level. At the national level, there is a sincere attempt even though it has its own challenges and problems and many perceive the fight against corruption at that level to be one sided. But I think that on the whole, there is genuine attempt to fight corruption and government is moving steadily in the fight. One of the positive impacts of the fight against corruption is the fact that the country would never go back to where we were before now. The rate of corruption that had been exposed so far would not be tolerated by anybody in Nigeria again. That is a major thing. The fight against corruption is a continuous thing and it has to continue. It has always been there. Shehu Usman Danfodio essentially fought against corruption. So, it is not something new, but I think that the scale in which it is fought today is something that marks it out.
On the other side, we need to make an improvement in addressing the economy. It appears to me that successive governments in Nigeria all suffered from their inability to address the economy. There is the tendency of not understanding the economy of the country. Or if they understood, the prescription to deal with it has always been a wrong one. And that is why we have been getting it wrong. If you look at it, all the successive governments, apart from Obasanjo’s second tenure, failed in the issue of economy. He was the only president that tried to address the economy.
There has been increased call for restructuring of late. What is your view on this call?
It is an old debate, older than Nigeria itself. Even before the construction of Nigeria in 1914, the colonialists had to discuss, to debate and even to quarrel over how to structure this vast territory, which was later called Nigeria. How do you manage it? How do you package it for the purpose of administration? At last, what triumphed was the issue of federation. It was settled that we should go for federation. Of course, General Ironsi when he came, attempted to create a unitary system, but it was resisted. Up till now, we have been battling with the federal structure. Whatever shape or coloration or whatever perception people have about it, that it is not a true federation; it is still a federation of states. The big question you will ask yourself when you are talking about restructuring of Nigeria is what is wrong with the current structure? What is the problem with the current federal structure? If you impose another structure, would it correct the problems that you are experiencing? That is the question you will ask yourself. For me, whatever Nigerians want is okay. It is a democracy. Whatever the vast Nigerians, not you and I, who make up the elite, but whatever the vast majority of Nigerians want, so be it! If the people want to dismantle Nigeria and create another structure, so be it. But we must come up with concrete reasons, compelling reasons as to why we feel that the current structure is bad enough and needs to be changed. Otherwise, in my view, the focus should be on making this current structure functional. We have to make the federal structure a true federal system, make it functional, address our problems, address our challenges and address our fears.
What about the cries for fiscal federalism, calls for more states for the South-east or even calls for change from the presidential system to the parliamentary system?
You see Nigeria is a country in a hurry. Nigerians are so much in a hurry that they want things their way and if it fails to address their own personal needs and interests, then the system should be dismantled. That is the way I see it. Otherwise, we should learn from other democracies. You should allow a system to function, make it work and then naturally, if you find areas that you need to address or change, then you may change it. Look at the way that our constitution has been so bastardized with so many attempts to amend it. Can’t we learn from the older democracy where you hardly find the issue of amendments for the past 100 years? We should allow systems to work and see where the problems are. But we are in a hurry. We started this and we dropped it. Mark you, we started with the parliamentary system of government. Less than four years it was discarded and the military came in many shades, some of them styled themselves as military president. We have experienced all this. And then we borrowed the American presidential system of government and since 1979 we have been experimenting with that.
Now, there is a call that we are tired of the presidential system, it is too expensive and it has not addressed our problems. So we want to go back to the parliamentary system. You know, our problem is not the system. The political actors are our major problem: you and I! We must believe in Nigeria, we must have that sense of genuine patriotism that we belong to this country and we want this country to work. We should not perceive others as parasites that have nothing to offer or to give or their states have nothing to give. And then we see others who are blessed by accident of the fact that the mineral resources are in their area and then we say let’s restructure for that purpose.
Are you therefore saying that the Niger Delta people should tolerate the rest of Nigerians who do not have oil resources?
Absolutely! What if things were the other way round? What if the minerals were in the other areas, will they throw away the Niger Delta people? No! We should accept that we are Nigerians. Unless we don’t want to live as Nigerians, we should be careful about all these kinds of calls for the restructuring of Nigeria.
So those calling for restructuring are taking a dangerous path?
Yes, a dangerous path. We should be very careful. That is the point I am making.
What is your take on the handling of the information regarding the health of the President? Has there been enough disclosure to Nigerians on his health?
Well, I don’t think I have any concrete opinion on that because I have not really studied the inflow of information vis-a-vis the facts on the ground to be able to judge whether they are giving us half information or they are giving us the complete dose of information. It is going to be unfair since I don’t have access to power to what is exactly happening.
As Nigerians do you think we have a right to know more about the health status of our president?
We have a right to know. You have a right to know but to a certain limit. He came out himself and said that he was sick. And he said that he had never been as sick as this before in his life. He told Nigerians that he was very sick. Whatever, your colleagues in the media would say, he said that he was sick. What he needs now is our prayers, sympathy and understanding.
Sir, we have been fed with speculations. Do you think the speculation would be addressed when we know more of what is actually wrong with our President?
Nigerians speculate on almost everything under the sun. So, this is not an exception. We speculate on almost everything. It is not something that should bother somebody!
But we are talking of our own president? Do we allow speculation to precede the facts of his health when he could as well communicate the facts to Nigerians and put the speculations to rest?
Well I am just hearing from you that there are speculations about his health because I have heard the man himself say that he was sick and I saw the man travelling out and looking sick. So what is hidden about this? Do you want the president to be televised on the hospital bed before you would be satisfied? You want to see him on bed on an hourly basis. If that is what you want, then it is unethical. I am not a doctor, but I know that it is unethical to give you account of everything that is happening on his hospital bed. I think it is never done.
The budget has not been signed into law? What is your view on the delay?
First, you should ask yourself, when did the executive take the budget to the National Assembly and what is the average time the National Assembly ought to have concluded whatever they were doing with the budget and take it back to the executive for assent? If you take that into cognizance, then you will be fair to both sides. They took it in December 2016. Is it ideal to present the budget in December? It is not ideal. The budget should have been there in October or at worst November. So the entire system, both on the side of the executive and on the side of the legislature, needs some changes if we really want to get it right. They should prepare the budget early enough, we should have a timetable and they should adhere to the timetable. The National Assembly should stop being political – though they are a political institution. There are few things that you do not impute politics into them. And one of it is budget passage. Once it is before them, they should subject it to all the scrutiny in good time and in the national interest and pass it.
What about the level of transparency in finances of the National Assembly?
I think that they should do more in terms of being transparent with the budget. They have attempted to respond to the request by Nigerians for them to be transparent and to disclose their budget, but they need to do more. Beyond telling us the quantum of money budgeted for the National Assembly, we need to know what is for what sector within the National Assembly. Both executive and the legislature, they are there on behalf of the people and the people want them to be more transparent about the money budgeted to the institution.
When you were talking about things the administration could do better, you were silent on the issue of adherence to the rule of law and obedience to court orders. How has the government fared in this regard?
Well the entire democratic system is based on the rule of law. You are talking about institutionalism and the separation of powers among the executive, legislature and the judiciary. The rule of law is the bedrock that ties the entire democratic system together. So anybody who does not respect the role of each of the arms of government or the individual arm of government must be joking with democracy.
In practice, how would you rate the observation of the rule of law – respect for court orders, relationship between the judiciary and executive and legislature – under the present dispensation?
Well, there is too much quarrel, too much conflicts and too much hot air in the relationship between the National Assembly and the Executive and that is one weakness with the presidential system of government. If you have a different party controlling the National Assembly and a different party controlling the Executive, then one would understand if there is hot air in the running of the government, but APC is the majority party in the National Assembly and still you have this quarrel. Some of the quarrels are needless. We don’t need them. So there is so much to do to improve the relationship between the Executive and National Assembly
Dasuki has been granted bail several times by different courts but…
Yes, I agree that the administration should do much more in terms of respecting court orders. If we don’t respect court orders, then we should forget about democracy. We should forget about rule of law. I agree that whoever is not respecting court judgment should be advised to do the right thing. Whosoever.