Gen John Nanzip Shagaya is a former Minister of Internal Affairs and a former Senator representing Plateau South constituency in the Senate from May 2007 to May 2011. In this interview with CHINELO OBOGO, he speaks on the ceding of Bakassi to Cameorun, the Jos crisis, state creation and other national issues.
One of the pains of our democracy today, apart from the institutionalized corruption is the loss of a part of Nigeria, the Bakassi Peninsula to Cameroon. Would this have happened under a military dispensation?
I am happy that you raised this very sensitive issue. The first thing I want to say is that it is criminal and wrong for any nation to consign its citizens or any group of citizens that would want to belong to a nation away without giving them a right to choose. Under the United Nations protocol, there is provision for self determination and in that provision, it says that anybody that is living under the sun has the right to determine how he should be governed.
So, I support that Nigeria should not stay on the way of the Bakassi people if they want to take their petition further to the United Nations under self determination and under fundamental human rights. It is morally wrong for the Nigerian government to stop them. You cannot beat a child and tell the child not to cry. There are two rights that every human being has that you cannot take away. One is given by God and that is right to life, shelter and to where you were born because no one can determine that. For me it is very sad in the sense that as a member of the national boundary commission under the IBB administration and as a man who has researched on the Bakassi Peninsula from 1551 to the various changing perspectives in 1913, 1926, 1956 to where we find ourselves today. That little portion of land described as Bakassi Peninsula which was known under the Spaniards discovery was named after the first person who founded the place, we should not have given it out. History shows that it was under the administration of Obong of Calabar all these years. One would have suggested to the Nigerian authorities if I had a way to do so, even if I had done so on the floor of the Senate before is to have allowed for what happened between the 1950’s and 1959 when northern and southern Cameroun were given the option to decide if they will belong to Nigeria or go back to the greater Cameroun. A certain period was given and after the expiration of that period a plebiscite was conducted and what became the Sadauna province which was Northern Cameroun is today what constitutes a large portion of Adamawa State. Southern Cameroun, in its wisdom decided to be part of the greater Cameroun because of the way the political administration in Eastern Nigeria was treating them, so they preferred to remain on the other side. Instead of signing the people of Bakassi Peninsula away, Nigeria would have allowed a period for a plebiscite to be conducted for the people to decide where they want to go.
Unfortunately, in September 1967, I lived in Bakassi Peninsula for 21 days. I was assigned there by Gen Adekunle, the GOC of 3Division to watch over that entry into Calabar to protect it from the landing of the naval ships into Calabar on the 18th of October 1967. They were Nigerians. We lived with them and they taught us a lot of things. They were proud to be Nigerians and they should not have been consigned away. One thing that we should do in leadership is to admit the mistake that we made and it is not too late for the Nigerian authority to tell the people of Bakassi that they have the right to petition the United Nations. We should not gag them because it is very wrong.
Do you think that Obasanjo acted judiciously in signing that agreement?
If Obasanjo who was the President at the time had consulted history, he would not have taken the decision he took. Under IBB, we almost got close to allowing for a plebiscite, then Gen Ike Nwachuwku was the Foreign Minister and I was the Internal Minister. At that time, we had problems with all our neighbors. An Army Brigade in Ilorin had occupied the territory in Benin Republic. Something happened which made the Nigerian Army occupy some parts of Benin Republic, the same way we occupied Kosomboso. Babangida took advantage of the crisis and set up a presidential committee with the agreement of the President of Niger Republic who was also a military man. That committee was given the mandate to explore the possibility of determining between the near mistakes that would have been committed by the colonial masters in 1834 when they carved it during the Berlin conference. We were given the mandate to recommend the acceptable boundaries between communities. The two Heads of States met and our recommendations were adopted, the boundaries were set and the beacons were re-fixed. Chad and Niger never had a land boundary, it was water. But what Nigeria and Chad Republic quickly agreed on was that any portion that was occupied by Nigerian fishermen will belong to Nigeria. We resolved the issue and the two Heads of States signed the agreement.
There have been conflicting reports about the cause of the crisis in Plateau State. You are from that state, what would you say is the root cause of the problem?
Contrary to the coloration the crisis in Jos has taken, religion has nothing to do with it. First of all, the governor of Plateau is a Christian and 15 out of the 17 local governments are dominated by Christians. The two which are dominated by Muslims are Kanam and Watse. Of all the commissioners that we have had in the state in the last 40 years, only one or two were Muslims, so how does religion come in? Nobody is fighting religion. I see it as a struggle for the control of resource like land on the higher plateau which has tin prospecting areas.
Many of the religious leaders who have been part of the committees of inquiry into the Plateau State crisis have come to the conclusion that there is nothing religious about the crisis in Jos. This is because out of the local governments in Jos, only one or two are crisis prone and those ones that are crisis ridden have the Berom people as inhabitants.
So, if it is truly religious, the state would have been torn apart especially when you find that the boiling point is around Berom communities where the governor comes from and the Fulani. So it is left to the governor to find out the root cause of the matter.
Here, I am referring to Gindiri which until 1960 was the only seat of knowledge in the whole of Northern Nigeria.
After the Second World War, the first educational institution to train pastors and teachers was established there. That is why you find many southerners on the Plateau. In the same way, if you talk about our Muslim brothers, they came in through very close interaction between Plateau, Bauchi states which were formerly the same province. Until 1924, some parts of Southern Plateau were not in Plateau but were under Muri Empire under Adamawa and were being administered from Jalingo. Until after the adjustments of 1924, some parts of the Plateau which is called Lola where Langtang belongs, became part of Plateau and if all after all these years there was no conflict, why is it now that conflict has risen? That is to show that there is nothing religious about it.
Most of the retired military officers you talked about are detribalized people because as at the time many of us joined the Nigerian Armed Forces, we did not know anything about religious apathy. Nigeria was our constitution. If you commanded a force, you will have people from different religions under your command and it is your duty to father everybody, so none of us saw religion as anything. But to hide under the cover of religion because someone else has his own ethnic agenda is what many of us disagree with. The fact that the crises have not engulfed the whole of the states where we have a large concentration of Muslims is for us to deduce that this has absolutely nothing to do with religion.
What was the highpoint of your senatorial career?
The bill I initiated was the highpoint of my four-stint. It was on global warming and climate change. I say so now looking back at what is happening in the country, the change in climatic conditions, the flood and rains that have cost lots of lives, not forgetting the swelling of the seas and creeks in many communities necessitating in the loss of land and property, especially housing. I say this because in 2008 when I was proposing the bill, I did predict that in the next 10 years, especially if one had to go through the scientific revolution that had taken place overtime, especially in the last 70 years, if we took our participation lightly in being part of the committee of the world that discusses climate change, for us to mitigate some of the immediate changing patterns of the climate confronting us, we will be worse for it. The bill has since been passed but the President has not signed it into law. If he had signed it, we would have been able to mitigate the challenges if we truly are able to follow some of the trends. I am of the conviction that the advanced countries are never caught in the web because they take predictions seriously. Because of that they take measures to reduce the pain and the destruction. So I consider that as my highpoint and my contribution to the National Assembly. It so happens that what I predicted is happening in my lifetime.
Some people have called for the scrapping of the senate for what they describe as unnecessary drainpipe of national resources owing to the high cost of maintaining the upper legislative chamber. As former senator, are you in agreement with this position?
For Nigerians who are calling for the scrapping of the senate, I will like to advise that they may need to first of all, revisit the 1979 Constitution to find out whether or not we should go back to what we inherited from the British colonialists or go along with the American presidential model of executive presidency. The executive presidential system suited America because of the bitter war of independence to free themselves from the British overlords.
Some people have blamed the emergence of Boko Haram on poverty. If it is poverty, when did it start and why should it implode now?
I refuse to believe that Boko Haram and other similar security issues are because of poverty and I have given you instances of such occurrence in the past. For instance the risen for the Rivers crisis under Borro was known. It was because they were tired of domination by the Igbos and they needed their independence. Gowon realized that and as soon as the civil war broke out, he gave them their own state.
The next phase of that problem was the attack on oil installations and our means of livelihood was being destroyed so when Gowon had gone, the military administration quickly created OMPADEC a special outfit with special funding that was created to address that economic bastardization.
WE’RE IS THIS SO CALL BAKASSI PEOPLE SINCE 10 YEARS EGO,PLEASE YOU GUYS SHOUL ACCEPT GOING TO CAMEROON ,BECAUS IS THEIR OWN PAYING BACK IN WHAT THEY DID AGAINST IGBOS,FORGET YOUR TREATING IT CAN NOT WORK FOR YOUR GUYS OK.
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@london boy, you are a fool. Even if bakassi goes to cameroon, the inhabitants are cross riverians. Their families are in nigeria. In nigeria, your tribe are the most persecuted group in the country. Almost all the killings by the antichrist boko harmas are ibos. We shall gain back bakassi through the very un that made the wrong judgement. We will then see how u will come there for hawking you fool. You scattered every where leaving your villages, yet you cannot keep yr rotten english language to take back Azumini from akwa ibom. Mumu.
You have forgotten so soon what your own people did to them.
why so darft london boy. wake up
poor sod…he does not know why the american framers opted for a two tiered house…you write constitutions to take cognisance of your history…NOT because america did this or that…but sha, na sodja…
WE’RE IS THIS SO CALL BAKASSI PEOPLE SINCE 10 YEARS EGO,PLEASE YOU GUYS SHOULD ACCEPT GOING TO CAMERON ,BECAUS IS THEIR OWN PAYING BACK IN WHAT THEY DID AGAINST IGBOS,FORGET ALL YOUR TREAT IT CAN NOT WORK FOR YOUR GUYS OK.WHEN IGBOS ARE CALLING YOUR PEOPLE NOBODY COME,NOW WHO DO YOU WANT TO HELP YOUR GUYS NOW,..PAYING BACK TIME,JUST HAVE A LOOK AT Northern NIGERIA TODAY,THIR IN TO PAYING BACK TIME,,,IT JUST REMAIN YOROBAS VERY SOON THEIR WON WILL BE COME VERY SOON,AND NOTHING WILL STOP IT COMING …ALL PEOPLE THAT HURT IGBOS MUST GET THEIR WON, ONE BY ONE TILL NIGERIA WILL DIVID ,..WHATEVER THAT HAPPING IN THEY NORTH TODAY, I BLEM ANY IGBO MAN OR WOMAN WHO STILL LVE IN THE NORTH,BETTER COME BACK BECAUSE WHATEVER THAT HAPPING TO YOU,YOU DID YOUR SELF,BECAUSE GOD IS PAYING THEM BACK,SO WE ARE IN PAYING BACK TIME,
People like Shagaya always speak of the Ibos out of ignorance. I the former Eastern Region before the civil war, no part of the East or non Igbos were ever maginalized. I want remind Shagaya that Port Harcourt is in Rivers State but it was the hub of industrial development area of the East. It is on record that Isaac Adaka Boro did revolt agains t the Ibos of the Eastern Region but against the Nigerian State that exploited all the resources of their land without devoting any substantial part of it for its development. Even after the war when Ibos were not part of the South South, what did Shagaya and his Hausa/Fulani brothers do with theresources of the Niger Delta? Who were the people that allocated all the oil blocks to themselves? What did they do to develop “Isaac Adaka Boro land.” People like shagaya should shut up their mouths because they don’t know anything about the Eastern Region before the cilil war. He is an illitrate militray boy from the Middle Belt whose people have always been obedient servants of the Hausa/Fulani masters. Please Shagaya, leave the Ibos alone and try to put out the fire that is engulfing you “Plateau House” As a sevant boy canot even challenge your Hausa/Fulani masters who want to take over your land. Remember that a fool at 40 is a fool for ever because up till now if you don’t know who your enemies are, it means that you will remain a fool for ever.
No Mr Umanna.You got it all wrong on Gen Shagaya.He is a nationalist.When peole like you open thir wide mouths to talk nonsense,all right thinking Naijas should ignore you.Have you thougt well to talk on this Gentleman Soldier?Where were you when Shagaya was in the army?He fought gallantly on the Federal side undre the dreaded Scorpion man, and conquered the okoros who wanted to secede.If you pon your loud mouth and say ah, on Shagaya, in fact,dont let us meet.
Saulawa or what ever you are called, you said, he fought on the side of nigeria and won the okoros, but today he is paying dearly with the blood of his own kinsmen in the same hands of the hausa-fulani. It is a curse for Shagaya and Gowon to have won a war they have turned round to be the victims of. Who says there is no God.
@umunna, shagaya is saying the truth. The calabarians the ogoja people and the ijaw/calabari were over marginalised by your people. That prompted Boro taking up arms to free his people. May be you were born after the war thats why you are writing nonsence.
Emeka,
you took the word from my mouth. I support your position on Adaka Boro, i think that so called Shagaya is burying is head in the sand, a fool indeed.
for calling an elderly person like Sagaya a fool for telling the truth, may you never be respected by your juniors.
Can anyone please tell me what the General’s answer was to the last question. Whoa.
Can anyone please tell me what the General’s answer was to the last question. Whoa. What was he rambling about the Igbos?
the man did not know any thing let bakassi remain there thats all
A wise man is the one who knows how to address a his question. Look a Nigerian General’s answer to the last question. He never address the question but ………..please if you don’t know what to say pls. be honest to say that you don’t have any comment.
Gen Shagaya is a true Nigerian, a true son of Plateau and has spoken well, virtually on all aspects regarding crises in Plateau, and the way out for Bakassi people as adviced. You are indeed an intelligent man going by the ways you bring out historic events with examples.
This man is so foolish that why we are like this today undeveloped,Please tell me what you think this man has in his brain if not milk.See our Internal affaires minister and senator.Dull brain.!The Hausa /Fulani his master who swore to use them as willing tools has finished with him .Thats why they instigated him and his brother Joe Garuba,Danjuma etc to topple Gowon.
Now, they ll annex them to Benue state.that the agenda . Fool
Shagaya is a mere slave boy jump promoted without merit by Jihadists in Nigeria Military from lieutenant to General.He is ready to murder history and anything to satisfy the ego of his slave master Jihadists,His interview is just a mimmick of his inept and clueless thinking.
Shagaya buried soldiers of Eastern Nigeria origin alive and made some of them to eat their human waste but want to sound detribalized. Check out his comment and the way he justified Boro and you see that he can never change as he was using his name to pander to the Ijaw in order to protect the looting of their resources through his wife.However,how long can they cover a pregnant stomach, because the delivery must come one day.
The man is an alcoholic imbecile. Forget the failed politician. He was among the military band that wrecked our development. Perish !
Eeh! 9ja people don wise, thank God 4 social media, no bodi go blind fool us again.
Whoa!, Whoa!!, Whoa!!!, so what did he say he was doing in the Senate? This inurbane, uncivilized simpleton suffering from anorexia, the question is what did he do in the Senate? A former Senator? May God save this nation.
USELESS OLD CARGO, WHO RUIN NIGERIA AS WELL IDIOT SHAMELESS FOOLS
Shagaya is among the originators of all the compounding problems of nigeria today
folish houseboy 2 hausa fulani; i dnt blame u. a fool hu sold his bet due 2 cowardice
Fool you were there for 21 days to witness the giving away of Bakassi to Cameroun and not to prevent naval ships from berthing. This retd General is an incorrigible liar and a coward. It was gowon that put you there not adekunle to monitor his weak and ungodly ceding of Bakassi , so shut your gap. You are simply afraid of the Fulanis and that was why you cleverly become an astute historian . Say it was religion and by next day you are a goner in the hands of the bokos which your former colleagues in genocide formed to oppress you for still bearing Xtian name. Go and rot .
Its a shame, a former senator of the federal republic, cant even understand nor answer simple questions. The hausa/fulanis will continually eliminate your people till they take over your state as they have done in Bauchi and other states. keep deceiving yourself. Why are you afraid? Are you saying Boko Haram need their own state. So you guys created Rivers state to please Boro? You used him to fight the war and your Federal troops eliminated him after making promises to him they knew, they will never keep. Isaac Boro was seeking self for determination, not state. How many oil blocks do you have in the Niger delta. Divide and rule
They old man man was sent to act the script. He has done the job given to him. But for bakassi, the story is over.
This is for real,no jokes.All the above commentaors have descended on Shagaya simply because he is a non southerner or non igbo.when shall we for God’s sake be real Nigerians devoid of such hard feelings towards our brethren?Shagaya was a fine soldier,he fought a civil war to keep the nation ONE, and some zombies are calling him names.Not even his contemporaries frm the Biafran side will say good of him bec, he and many others gave their tomorrow for our TODAY.enof of this madness.
He is one of those hedden crimials in nigeria
Nigeria today igbo have no to offer to pple of nigeria,why are u pples abusing the all man,becos he say the true about souther,pls allow the all man to rest.The only place that he hid to me is plateau state,pls my brother dont mistake for that words that is religiou crisise pls find a place and burie that statement away is not ecourage to me.
If you have nothing better to say i think you should go to sleep.
This is what that nigeria should have cliamed since why are they disturbing them selfs now
a general indeed, yes !, this man is a general in the Boko Haram army, as he has demonstrated in his REFUSAL to answer the last question
Americans fought series of wars
To attain what they are today
And now are poised to defend their
Collective course to the later.
Why then we can’t look at the civil war
As a quest to remain one and put it behind
Us.The igbos have a vast country and trading
All over.We know the common enemies of
This country. Bakassi is one of their nefarious
Act. When you laugh at the Bakassi people,do you
Know what they have coming for you tomorrow?
Or the killings and looting,is it not enoughheadach
For us?Brothers bury your hatchets and let put
Our energy together and confront our common enemy.
Which is this fake Federal system.which having legitmacy
To a sect to hold the beloved people of this countrry to ransom
While i don’t know the general nor his politics,he showed an understanding of our pre-independence history which i think is necessary to understand our problems. One thing is for sure,our past leaders have not taken the best interest of Nigeria in decision-making,hence the under-development,Bakassi and other ills.Among our many problems are ethnicity,religion,politics,discrimination,rivalry,hatred,domination,etc. A way forward is for us to forge ahead as a nation by reviewing all our political institutions,ensuring fareness at all levels,and treat every family(region, ethnic,tribe) the same.Resources should be shared equitably.Corruption and mismanagement should be hated by all. Office-holders should be probed to deter looting and offeders jailed with their wealth confiscated.
Okpa or watin call, do you think you can eat your cake and have it back? Don’t you know that what goes round comes round. There is always two sides to a coin. So remain silence or what so ever you said would be used against you.
If Bakassi is between republic of Benin and Lagos can Obasanjo and his tribal Attorney give to them?
He trick them by calling them Niger delta which they don’t know the what it stand for ok among all the oil well owner how many Niger delta names can we find on the list. All the Royal majesties in Efik said did say no the outcome of Treat By Obasanjo the same Obasanjo give away Bakassi to Cameroon during the war and the same Man send the Efik as slaves to Cameroon Ibo blood is still fighting hahaha Oji Ofu ga la
Basho kamalu
The Nigerian youth is just too ignorant on historical and national affairs,and instead of listening,learning,and asking questions they insult,argue,and remain ignorant.This man is narrating his experience and sharing his views and opinion and people are insulting.Nigerian youths we are tired of a weak youth tthat continually criticise without efforts to transform our Dear country.Go back to ur history books and trace your roots as nigerians,and. Stop insulting people publicly when they let outt the little information they have.u continually bark and yet we are not seeing placards and billboards that a revolution is coming or about starting.pls we need to be more cvil in our conduct thn insults.