Omoniyi Salaudeen

The dust raised by the demolition of factional office of the ruling All Progressives Congress (APC) by the Kaduna State government is yet to settle. In this interview, Senator Joseph Waku blames the raging crises in most state chapters of the party on the impunity and incompetence of the national leadership.

How would you react to the crisis in the Kaduna State chapter of the All Progressives Congress (APC) which led to the demolition of the factional office of the party?

My opinion is not different from many observers. The demolition was politically motivated. And it shouldn’t be so. I am not in support of it no matter the differences. We are not teaching the younger generation anything good to emulate. That is where my worries are. When I was in the senate, we had concluded arrangement on removing former President Olusegun Obasanjo by way of impeachment when our elder statesmen, Gen Yakubu Gowon (retd), Gen Ibrahim Babandiga (rted), Gen Abubakar Abdul Salam (rted) and former President Shehu Shagari invited us for a discussion at Nicon Hotels. While we were articulating our position, they listened to all the charges we made and they didn’t argue with us. All they said was that the timing was not correct. The timing of demolition of that house was a clear case of political vendetta. I watched the Commissioner of Finance attempting to defend the action. So many Nigerians that watched him felt sorry for him. There was no justifiable reason for the action. This man had acquired the property for several years, he defaulted in taxation, you didn’t do anything until he converted the building to a factional office and then you decided to use the place for a park. How large is the place that it can be used for a park? These are empty reasons in the ears of many Nigerians. If you are in office, you have to do justice to all manners of people. I want to plead with all political leaders that such action should not be repeated no matter the provocation.

Intriguinly, this action is coming at a time when President Buhari has just constituted peace and reconciliation committee to reconcile all the aggrieved members of the APC. Where is the room for genuine reconciliation with this development?

In the eye of the Almighty God, nothing is impossible. It all depends on the way and manner the leader of the reconciliation committee approaches the two sides. I disagree with those who feel that some particular individuals in the party are not important. One vote can give you victory, and one vote can deny you victory. In my opinion, existence of faction in any political party is a healthy situation. It is a test of maturity of the leadership to navigate and bring all the warring factions together. 

There is hardly any state chapter of the party that is free from one crisis or the other. Is this reconciliation not a belated one? 

APC as a political party is not organized. But I am glad that these things are happening. When some of us complain, they accuse us of engaging in anti-party activities. I am not born that way. And many other people within the fold too are not born that way. APC got its leadership by default. And it has proven its incompetence in managing the affairs of the party. I am not an emergency politician. I have been in politics for decades, I have gone through the ranks, and I know how political parties are being run. The arrogance with which the leadership is running the affairs of the APC is what is affecting it. Nigerians are wiser now. If Nigerians can get up one morning and change a government in power, then nobody can take the people for granted again. It is our duty to humble ourselves in government; it is our duty to humble ourselves in the position of authority. The dimension of Kaduna APC crisis has further heightened my fear about the agitation for state police. And genuinely so. It is something we must guide against.

This also has to do with temperament. Isn’t it?

In leadership, when you are temperamental, you are likely to commit avoidable mistakes. For example, you can send your troops to war only to realise later that you are fighting a wrong war. So, a leader must have compassion, a leader must show humility, a leader must avoid taking hasty decision even in the face of provocation. You lose nothing by being humble. When a leader is humble even where he is being tormented, people will be there to fight his cause. For example, when Peter Obi was the governor of Anambra State, I was privileged to visit Awka. There was an occasion that the governor was to attend and I was with him in his car. Some people came with siren and over took his convoy. And what did he do? He said, ‘if overtaking my convoy with their siren will make them happy, so be it.’ Then he said, “Senator, can we take a walk? I said why not.” That didn’t stop the Anambra people from recognizing him as the governor. When the people got there to receive the governor and found out that the people in the convoy were not the governor, they stayed back. When they looked back, they saw the governor walking to the venue of the occasion. His humility didn’t remove anything from him as a governor. It rather endeared him to the people the more. Those who behaved in that manner were the ones being castigated. That is a leader with passion and humility.

What is your expectation of the results of the coming congress vis-a-viz the outcome of the ongoing reconciliation?

I am a practical politician but sometimes I allow the judgment of the masses. If there is anybody in the media who knows my position about the APC, it is you. When the PDP had its non elective convention, I said it was a danger signal to the APC. I also added that, if the PDP which had been having a running battle for several years could organize itself far ahead of the next general elections, then there is a serious challenge for the APC. The level of impunity of the leadership of APC at all levels gives worry to many Nigerians. You recall what Senator Oluremi Tinubu said about her husband heading the reconciliation team. She said after her husband had been used and dumped, he was now assigned to lead the reconciliation. This is the position of many Nigerians about the APC. You cannot run a political party like that. Even in the era of military dictatorship, when the army stages a coup and captures power, it is those people who risk their lives that benefit from the government. It is not different in a democratic dispensation. A situation whereby those who didn’t contribute anything to the party are the ones enjoying the benefits of the government is not normal and it cannot be normal.

To digress a little, former President Olusegun Obasanjo is in the news again. He is leading a Coalition Movement for a change of government. What is your take on this?

Constitutionally, Obasanjo is covered by constitutional provisions on the freedom of speech and freedom of association to do what he is doing. Does that answer your question?

No, you are not saying anything. 

(Laughs)…It is left to Nigerians to trust him. I have no quarrel with him. A change of government can either be by coup, which is an offence, or through a political party. The question is: Is the coalition a political party? Then, what are we talking about?

Meaning that he is just wasting his time?

He is either planning a coup or wasting his time. If I were him, I will form a political party to drive the agenda because the Nigerian constitution has not yet recognized independent candidate.  If he does, then he can pursue his ambition through independent candidate and market such a person. If he is going to change the government, on what platform is he going to do that?  If he had formed a political party, perhaps, he would have won the hearts of many Nigerians. 

In his letter, he raised some allegations of wrong doings like nepotism, clannishness against President Muhammadu Buhari. From your point of view, will these allegations not rub off on the credibility and the goodwill of Mr President?

I am not the spokesperson of Mr. President. I have faulted the president in my own opinion for some of his decisions particularly on the issues of insurgency and the incessant killing of innocent citizens in some states of the federation and the way and manner he has reacted to them. I am not too happy about it. In the Second Republic, when he was the GOC in Jos and the Chadian army infiltrated into some parts of Nigeria, he didn’t wait for the approval of President Shehu Shagari before he deployed troops and recovered the parts that were seized by the Chadians. He even almost captured the capital of Chad and was there until the president ordered him to return. I thought that now that he doesn’t have to wait to take orders from anybody, he would be more responsive in taking decisive action on the menace of the Fulani herdsmen. This gives room for many Nigerians to doubt the competence of this administration to handle the situation. My anger with Buhari is his silence at the early stage of the attacks and killings of Benue people by the Fulani herdsmen. He should have spoken out much earlier. His silence at the initial stage was not good at all. His silence might be misconstrued or interpreted by some people as condoning the heinous crime by the Fulani herdsmen. Buhari’s silence is not the best. He should have come out to condemn these Fulani herdsmen terrorists and killers. He should have also visited Benue State to commiserate with the people. I have also expressed my reservation over the national security appointments. The domination of the appointments by two zones and one religion is also not the best for this administration.           

These are some of the things Obasanjo raised in his letter. But my quarrel with Obasanjo’s letter is that he has access to Buhari. If he had on one-on-one approached the president and given his advice against these issues, and he (Buhari) turned a deaf ear and then took it to the National Council of State, and no action was taken, his letter would have been justifiable.

If your party presents Buhari to the Nigerian people for the next presidential election, can you expect what happened in 2015 to happen again in 2019?

It may not be as it was in 2015 because when you are in government, you must have stepped on some toes. So, if the popularity with which you came in was 99.9 per cent, definitely, it will no longer be the same. Why I have refused to comment on Buhari’s re-election is that when some party men stood up to say they endorsed him, I looked at them as sycophants because you can only endorse somebody when there are other contestants. In this case, Buhari has not come out to say that he wants to run.  If he had indicated his intent to run and other Nigerians also indicated their intention to contest, then I have a choice. But for now, he has not indicated his intention to contest.